Episode 68
Extremes: Maximalism vs Minimalism in Holistic Health
This episode delves into the dichotomy of maximalism versus minimalism, exploring how these contrasting ideologies can infiltrate the realm of holistic health and wellbeing. We articulate that both extremes yield detrimental effects, presenting a false narrative that one must either indulge excessively or deprive oneself entirely to achieve a fulfilling lifestyle. The discussion centers around the societal pressures that drive individuals toward lavish consumerism, exemplified by extravagant hauls, while simultaneously critiquing the unrealistic standards set by minimalist influencers. We emphasize the necessity of discerning one's motivations and aligning them with a purpose that glorifies God, rather than succumbing to the whims of popular culture. Ultimately, we advocate for a balanced approach that prioritizes spiritual fulfillment and thoughtful consumption, urging listeners to evaluate their desires and cultivate gratitude for their current blessings.
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of discerning between maximalism and minimalism in holistic health practices.
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their consumption habits and the impact on their spiritual lives.
- The hosts discuss how societal pressures can distort our understanding of health and wellness.
- It is suggested that true wellness comes from glorifying God rather than succumbing to trends.
- The episode highlights the need for a balanced approach to consumption, avoiding extremes that lead to dissatisfaction.
- Ultimately, the podcast calls for gratitude and awareness of God's provisions in our lives.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:And welcome back to Casting Seeds.
Speaker B:I'm Savannah, your holistic health practitioner and host.
Speaker A:And I'm Jeremiah, your co host.
Speaker A:Woohoo.
Speaker B:He's back.
Speaker A:I'm back.
Speaker B:And you're listening to the only holistic health podcast that uses God's singular truth to give you individualized discernment.
Speaker B:I'm so excited you're back.
Speaker B:It feels like it's been forever.
Speaker A:It's been roughly like four to six episodes somewhere in there.
Speaker B:Too long.
Speaker B:Yeah, too long.
Speaker B:But this episode is going to be a little different because very rarely do we ever follow tick tock trends or Instagram trends.
Speaker B:I don't even have a tick tock or an X account, to be honest.
Speaker A:Oh, Twitter.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:I know it's weird saying X, but we wanted to discuss something that I feel like often pops up even in herbalism and in holistic health that I feel like we don't realize has leaked into it.
Speaker B:And it's honestly the idea of maximalism versus minimalism and how the two extremes are very unhealthy.
Speaker B:So whether it's a maximalist haul, you know, like those videos, like here's my $700 Sephora haul, which is aimed honestly more towards young teenage girls.
Speaker B:And then there's the minimalist haul, which I feel like has been aimed more towards millennials, like you know, mid-30s and because we can't afford a lot right now, the whole thing.
Speaker B:And the, I don't know, even with backpacking, I was telling Jeremiah earlier, like, it's like how little can you survive off of?
Speaker B:And it's kind of, it's still self glorifying and gratifying either way.
Speaker B:And it's really frustrating to watch that seep into holistic health and how people consistently are frustrated that they feel like they can't afford.
Speaker B:Which we've talked about on another episode.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Love.
Speaker B:Like how to manage finances to afford holistic health, which I think was actually one of our very first episodes.
Speaker B:We've talked about that a few times.
Speaker A:Top 10.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or first 10.
Speaker B:Within the first 10 episodes.
Speaker B:And people really think that you have to pay a whole bunch of money to get all these green washed brands and do all these things in order to live a holistic life lifestyle or a sustainability lifestyle.
Speaker A:I mean, you do.
Speaker A:If you're going to buy the product, if you're going to be a consumer, you're gonna spend money.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:If you're going to be in the consumer lifestyle, which is fine.
Speaker B:Not everyone, not everyone, you know, has to make things from Scratch, Right.
Speaker B:That doesn't.
Speaker B:And that's the other thing people covet also that like, oh, I'm a homemaker, I make my own bread from scratch and milk my own cows.
Speaker B:Like, you guys have to understand that when it comes to holistic health, whether you are a little bit more on the maximalist side or the minimalist side, the healthy part is making sure you're glorifying God.
Speaker B:Who are you doing this for?
Speaker B:Yeah, the entire time.
Speaker B:And if you are coveting any of those things, then it's time to change that lifestyle choice because it is hindering your relationship with Christ first and foremost.
Speaker B:And so we wanted to talk about this.
Speaker B:It's going to be a short and sweet episode, which I love.
Speaker B:I love our 30 minute to like 40 minute episodes.
Speaker B:Those are my favorite.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're short, sweet, to the point and they should be convicting, especially on a holyistic level.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you feel like you pull towards a minimalistic lifestyle?
Speaker B:Minimalistic, yeah.
Speaker B:That was cute.
Speaker A:Versus a, I don't know, the whole lifestyle.
Speaker B:The maximum maximalism.
Speaker B:I guess it's kind of hard for me to say because I feel like with some things I can be more maximalism and some things I am more minimalistic.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So for our household, for you and I personally, what comes first financially?
Speaker B:It's also besides Christ, you know, obviously put Christ first.
Speaker B:But I am tend to be more maximalistic where I'm like, okay, if I get this bundle of herbs and this bundle of herbs, I know this will last us a year and a half to two years for X, Y and Z.
Speaker B:So in that way, when I think about it long term, to me it is more minimalism.
Speaker A:You want to store more now for the future?
Speaker B:Yes, but only after I run out.
Speaker B:So let's go into the difference between maximalism and minimalism because I think once I tell you the definition of what it is not for like real life definition.
Speaker B:This is like the Tick Tock Instagram definition.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So social media.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So maximalism is buying things just to buy it.
Speaker B:You have 13 different mascaras.
Speaker B:Because you can't.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just because you can.
Speaker B:Because you want to be able to try the different ones each even though they all will go bad at some point after you open them.
Speaker B:Like it's having stuff just to have it.
Speaker B:So in that way, sometimes I do feel like I.
Speaker B:I'm like that with books.
Speaker B:I love knowledge.
Speaker B:Jeremiah and I have so many books that we have purchased and then we have not even picked up or and read and I do feel convicted about having those.
Speaker A:I just got three more books.
Speaker B:But you got weeks ago, you won them.
Speaker B:But it's like that kind of thing where it's like if you don't need it, but you still get it.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's the maximalist.
Speaker B:And I don't even think you and I are maximalist in any way now that I'm honestly thinking about it.
Speaker B:But also you and I can't afford to be maximalist.
Speaker A:I don't see the point wasting money.
Speaker B:I'm just saying, even if we wanted to, we, we can't afford that.
Speaker B:So that's why I think a lot of people really stocks.
Speaker B:Yeah, if only.
Speaker A:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:And so that's the thing then.
Speaker B:Minimalism.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Reminds me of like more of the backpacking mindset.
Speaker B:You use one thing for multiple uses.
Speaker B:You try, you know, you try to use it, but you use it until either it's completely unusable.
Speaker B:Even if it's broken, you use it, you know, as much as you can.
Speaker B:But then people tend to do the far extreme of that of like we only share one bath towel or we reuse bath water for a whole day or backpacking.
Speaker B:No, in their home.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Like there was this husband and wife who were bragging in a video about sharing the same toothbrush for two years.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:And not changing the head of the toothbrush.
Speaker A:It's disgusting.
Speaker B:So, you know, like there, there are pluses and minuses to both.
Speaker B:I do think, you know, not on the extreme maximalism side.
Speaker B:If you need to buy a new thing, buy it.
Speaker B:And then, yes, on the minimalistic side, use it until it is unusable.
Speaker B:Like you can mend clothes, you can pick up good habits from both.
Speaker B:And I, what bothers me the most and what I wanted to get into is social media in its like core, you know, the everyday lifestyle is boring for people to watch.
Speaker B:And the algorithm doesn't promote it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It, it promotes extremes.
Speaker B:So when somebody does something kind of shocking, like I have, there's this one girl, I saw a video, she had a two thousand dollar Target haul on just baby clothes.
Speaker B:I mean, targets, you know, a little pricey in my, it's like a little overpriced in my mind.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Especially out here in Orange County.
Speaker B: But: Speaker B:Is your child modeling like babies multiples of different clothing?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:But babies live in like onesies.
Speaker B:Like do you need eight outfit changes a day?
Speaker A:You know, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker B:But do you get like it Wasn't.
Speaker B:It wasn't like she didn't have other baby clothes.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker A:No, it makes sense.
Speaker A:I hear what you're saying, but there's also.
Speaker A:I don't know if you want me to jump into this a little bit, but there, there's a mindset and an actual financial gain that they're doing to.
Speaker A:For these videos.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, that's true.
Speaker A:They're being paid.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So like Sephora is paying this person to go advertise.
Speaker A:It's an advertising type of thing.
Speaker B:So that's the thing.
Speaker B:Sometimes that's happening if they're not doing.
Speaker A:It and getting paid those advertisement funds, they're doing it so that they do get that eventually.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Over time.
Speaker A:It's not because they want this sometimes really well.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So there are some videos where it's like just a rich like 12 year old girl who their parents make a lot of money and then they come back and they're like I got a Louis Vuitton, like here are my eight new designer bags.
Speaker A:Sounds like she needs parenting.
Speaker B:Well, so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Sometimes what I do get what you are saying because that is a thing as well.
Speaker B:It is a business tactic which is something I wanted to mention.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Of mentioning a brand over and over again and having big hauls from them and then they're like well of course we want to work with you.
Speaker B:You spend all this money, you get other people to buy.
Speaker B:Which yes, that is absolutely a brain giveaways and everything.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But here's the thing that's starting to become kind of falling on deaf ears where people are looking at that and being like this is not what the average person can live off of or survive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's becoming unattractive where it kind of looks like what's that movie where she like kisses her fingers and Hunger Games.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:What are they, what are they called at the center?
Speaker B:The capital.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's becoming.
Speaker B:People are starting to feel like it's like a capital type of vibe where these, the top 3 or 4% of the world, like again an extreme version of wealth is flaunting that wealth.
Speaker B:And like the Kardashians, so they built their whole brand off of, of being able to live lavishly and that's like their whole identity.
Speaker B:There's no talent or anything there.
Speaker B:It's just I can spend money and you can't.
Speaker B:Haha.
Speaker B:Don't you want to watch me and.
Speaker A:Follow me or you're lazy if you don't have your own company.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:But that's the thing.
Speaker B:I feel like as Christians, obviously, we're turned off by that.
Speaker B:But I want mothers and fathers and people who listen to this podcast to understand that this is something that is being shoved in your children's face often.
Speaker B:And we don't realize how it really can affect us, even on the holistic level of, like, man, wouldn't it be nice if we could just order laundry detergent and not have to make it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wouldn't it just be so nice to be able to afford that extra, like, 300 of spending a month on just that, on just laundry and not have to think about, you know, mixing borax and baking or washing soda, getting white vinegar, you know, the whole thing.
Speaker B:But also, too.
Speaker B:And that's like the time versus money contemplation that people don't talk about.
Speaker B:You either have time or you have money or you have both, but you don't.
Speaker B:You don't not have at least one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So for us, for you and I, we have more time than we do finances.
Speaker B:So for us, it's not a burden.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, nobody loves doing a bunch of extra things.
Speaker B:Like, even when we did the garden yesterday, like, that was.
Speaker B:That was a lot of work.
Speaker B:We had to put in half a days of work into that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But imagine how much easier it would have been if we just paid a gardener.
Speaker A:No, it wouldn't have been easier.
Speaker A:It would have stressed me out because he might not have done it right.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, he wouldn't have done it the clean way that we've been wanting.
Speaker B:But what I'm saying is.
Speaker B:See what I mean?
Speaker B:So for you, you were willing to put in the time because we want a clean, organic, you know, more of a permaculture.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Rather than just an organic garden where someone could come and mess that up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But what I'm saying is people often make the excuse that they, oh, I don't have the money and I don't have the time, which is a lie.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, you're either putting your time and effort and into something financially that's draining you and not supporting you, or you're putting your time and effort into saving towards something that will benefit you.
Speaker B:So that's one of the things that you and I have had to contemplate, like, okay, yeah, I mean, like doing laundry, making our own laundry mix.
Speaker B:It really doesn't take that much time.
Speaker B:You order the three products, you mix the two things.
Speaker B:And our clothes are cleaner than most people's because of it.
Speaker B:And our, it cleans our washer and dryer as well.
Speaker B:So same thing with, you know, making food at home.
Speaker B:I feel like that's, that actually is very time consuming.
Speaker B:You have to go out, buy groceries, kind of plan make those meals.
Speaker B:It's exhausting.
Speaker B:Yeah, but if you don't have the money for a personal chef or you don't have the money to have meals delivered to you or groceries delivered to you, you have to do it.
Speaker B:You have to get it done.
Speaker B:So it can easily.
Speaker B:And that's what's annoying.
Speaker B:Both can be a humble brag where it's like, oh, you know, I just pay for a food service to bring it for me.
Speaker B:You know, people can then covet that and be like, I wish I had the money to be able to pay for like an organic food service to drop food off for me and my family.
Speaker B:And then it's the opposite side of like, I wish I had the time to be able to make bread and milk cows and get chickens and you know, make everything from scratch for my family every day.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, but at the end of the day that's a heart posture problem.
Speaker B:It is exactly 100.
Speaker B:So I just going back to the maximalist and minimalist type of lifestyle.
Speaker B:I want people to understand that consumption in general with maximalism became an idea.
Speaker B:It's become an identity for a lot of people.
Speaker B:And these trends say that you are what you buy.
Speaker B:So if you don't buy X, Y and Z, you're not cool like me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This is especially for like girls who are.
Speaker B:I, I'd say boys too because even there I feel like designer has gotten really in with boys within the past 10 years.
Speaker A:I feel like it's been this way for, I mean since I was a child there were kids.
Speaker A:Like if.
Speaker A:So vans was expensive back when I was a kid.
Speaker B:Yeah, same.
Speaker A:And if you didn't have vans or Convers.
Speaker A:Yeah, you were a loser.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It didn't matter what brand you were wearing, you were a loser.
Speaker B:Well, same thing with Abrami and Hollister.
Speaker B:But then that's, that's a, the only thing that's hard for me is now kids are being sold like Dior.
Speaker B:They're being told they need Gucci perfume.
Speaker B:Like 12 year old.
Speaker A:Step it up a little.
Speaker B:A little.
Speaker A:I mean you go to Ross and buy the knockoff.
Speaker B:But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:They make fun of you for that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So sure, that's.
Speaker B:But the reason why is because the more extreme and the more insane it is.
Speaker B:Like getting a kid a newborn baby, Nike shoes.
Speaker B:Like, if it's rewarding, check mark on their foot, just.
Speaker B:And then write Andy on the bottom.
Speaker B:Jeremiah, Toy Story reference.
Speaker B:But they're being rewarded with likes and follows.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or comments or admiration in some way.
Speaker B:Or even if it's like a negative comment.
Speaker B:That's the thing.
Speaker B:It's still getting them clout.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's getting them exposure.
Speaker A:They want exposure.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And they don't care if it's good or bad.
Speaker B:It's that extreme.
Speaker B:Type of.
Speaker B:Okay, well, this may be insane, but you can't afford it, so who cares?
Speaker B:And that's the thing.
Speaker B:Like, the dangers of defining your value through abundance, especially when it's a financially unstable of an abundance, is also.
Speaker B:Not only is it unbiblical, which we can bring up some verses in a second, but it's also environmentally damaging.
Speaker B:Not just for you and your mental health, because that can't be sustainable unless you really are like, you know, a wealthy kid.
Speaker B:But it's not sustainable, too, in the fact that you are supporting fast fashion.
Speaker B:Even a lot of designer brands are supported off of slave labor.
Speaker B:Slave labor.
Speaker B:I can't talk right now.
Speaker A:There's been a whole bunch of articles and stuff like that.
Speaker A:You guys can actually see the prices increase because they have to pay the tariffs now.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so all of that's like actually being shown right now.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Well, and people, when I say this, I think they think of, like, Sheen or Amazon products.
Speaker B:Sheen is like, can get like a dollar for a shirt on there.
Speaker B:Like, ridiculous prices.
Speaker B:That shouldn't.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:A shirt couldn't, shouldn't, and can't cost a dollar.
Speaker B:It doesn't even cost that.
Speaker B:It cost like $10 just to make, you know, so what I'm.
Speaker B:What I'm saying is like, Nike, Adidas, they're known for doing slave labor.
Speaker B:And that's not even a designer brand.
Speaker A:Lululemon, a bunch of others.
Speaker B:They're horrible.
Speaker B:But then, like, Gucci's been caught doing that Prada.
Speaker B:It'd be like the difference.
Speaker B:Like you explained to me the other day, Ferrari makes all of their own cars by hand, stitched by hand, versus, like, we were talking about Bugattis.
Speaker B:No, Lamborghinis.
Speaker A:Lamborghinis, where they're.
Speaker A:It's like Uggs versus Uggs.
Speaker A:There's the American Uggs and the Australian Uggs.
Speaker A:One's handmade, the other one's not.
Speaker B:Well, the American one is made in China.
Speaker B:It's not really American made, but there you go.
Speaker B:But that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker B:Like there's a difference between, you know, like quality.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like if you're paying for craftsmanship and quality, which by the way, you can get from like a local seamstress down the street or you can take sewing classes.
Speaker B:So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:These, this is the time versus finances debate or dilemma where if you have the finances to buy the Ferrari of clothing, where that's truly handcrafted, great design, then wonderful.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:And as long as you're not like prideful about it and flaunting.
Speaker B:Because that's another issue as well.
Speaker B:You know, I know a lot of people have true, amazing, like high end designer clothes and purses and bags and shoes, but they don't flaunt it.
Speaker A:And that's what is your opinion on flaunting it.
Speaker B:Bragging about it, being proud of it.
Speaker B:Because it's a, you can, you should take care of your things and make the things last.
Speaker B:But if you're like, you know, you throw a designer, if you throw your bag on the floor, even if it's not designer, because you don't care if it actually gets ruined.
Speaker B:Yeah, that kind of a thing.
Speaker B:Like you can care for it and be like, oh, you know, like, I don't put my bag on the floor.
Speaker B:I'm trying to make it last a long time.
Speaker B:But if you, you know, if a child accidentally stepped on the bag and then you get pissed and freak out and you know, clearly the bag's life matters more than a child's life.
Speaker B:That's a problem.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a heart issue, so an identity issue.
Speaker A:I think I'm going to go a little extreme here.
Speaker A:You are making yourself the idol if you think you need to wear something like that.
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you think you need to, that's a problem.
Speaker A:The devil is described with tons of jewels on them.
Speaker B:Oh, in Isaiah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's covered in every single gem.
Speaker A:And so putting that Ferrari, driving the Ferrari or wearing some special jewelry or clothing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I struggles to see the difference in you wearing it for your own pleasure because other people are going to worship you because you're wearing it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Well, some things, I guess I don't really know designer brands.
Speaker B:But here's the thing.
Speaker B:If I fell in love with like a bag or a pair of shoes or whatever, even a pair of pants, and then it ended up being like $400 and it's something I really, really wanted and I saved up for and I worked hard to get it.
Speaker B:I don't think you would be, you know, it's not something that I think we would ever really want to purchase, but if I worked really hard, like my, my backpacking backpack, let's use that as an example.
Speaker B:That's almost a $400 purchase, which some people would be like that for a backpack.
Speaker B:That's insane.
Speaker B:But it's a gear that you and I would want to use in future adventures together.
Speaker B:So what's the difference between a designer backpack, you know, for that's going to slowly get destroyed, especially in the outdoors, versus a designer bag that could actually even go up in value and be resold?
Speaker B: ut then in two years be worth: Speaker A:It would be the reason why you bought it.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Like, there.
Speaker B:Just because we're Christians doesn't mean we can't indulge in wonderful, cool, awesome items like that.
Speaker B:But making sure you have the correct heart posture behind it is really important.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I know men that have, like, the latest Corvette, the latest, like, fancy car, and they never drive it to church, they never drive it to their work location.
Speaker A:And so, like, they, they intentionally remove that from everyone else's heart posture so they don't make people jealous or make people think anything.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I definitely think there's a way of doing it biblically.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's really going to be where your heart posture is and, like, how you want to use that object.
Speaker B:Right, exactly.
Speaker B:So but then let now let's move on to minimalism.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So these types of influencers claim to be anti consumerist, which we already, we've proven that a lot of people can lie about that because the same people who do maximalism will make one video of minimalism, return everything exactly to look good.
Speaker B:But they're also performing like a new kind of purity that's still about a sense of control and perfection and online praise.
Speaker B:So it's like, oh, I'm more innocent than a maximalist type of person because we just used one pair of sheets and I wash it.
Speaker B:But it's like, okay, if you're really about sustainability and doing, you know, not buying as much or owning as much, how realistic is it for you to own only one pair of sheets?
Speaker B:Like, what happens if you have kids and someone wets the bed?
Speaker B:Or like, are you really okay with doing laundry that more like, like many times, like, there was this one Girl that I saw, she had one pair of workout clothes and then one pair of jeans, one shirt, one jacket, which, by the way, I found out was a scam.
Speaker B:Okay, but if someone looked at that one video and then was inspired by that, and it's like, I just want to be as minimalistic as possible.
Speaker B:I'm gonna get rid of all of my clothes.
Speaker B:That's kind of.
Speaker B:That actually defeats the purpose of what minimalism is.
Speaker B:Minimalism is about using what you have until it completely goes out.
Speaker B:So these girls had, like, also as an example, they had these giant makeup hauls because they were sold out on maximalism.
Speaker B:And then what happened was all of their brand new makeup that they had just purchased, like a week ago, they.
Speaker B:They threw it in the trash.
Speaker B:You didn't.
Speaker B:They didn't return it.
Speaker B:I mean, it would get thrown out anyway.
Speaker B:But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Like, if you have it, use it slowly over the next few years.
Speaker B:If you really want to be more, quote, unquote, minimalist.
Speaker B:I mean, if it goes bad or if it has bacteria on it, obviously get rid of it.
Speaker B:And that's the other extreme of minimalism.
Speaker B:It can just be disgusting.
Speaker B:Like what we mentioned, sharing a toothbrush, or like they had one bar of soap head to toe for everyone in the family.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:Like, there are things that are just gross that you shouldn't be doing that even go against biblical hygiene.
Speaker B:Like what's mentioned in the Bible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:It just makes me think of the monks who whip themselves to repent or.
Speaker B:Remove themselves from society completely.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Or never speak again.
Speaker A:Because sin.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know what their word is.
Speaker A:Yeah, but you put yourself through suffering to make yourself higher than others.
Speaker B:Well, I.
Speaker B:I also think, like, the glamorization of scarcity, it.
Speaker B:It can be, again, tone deaf.
Speaker B:Like what we talked about earlier, like, the one was more of capitalistic tone deafness.
Speaker B:We're like, okay, people don't live this way.
Speaker B:But a lot of, like these people who go from maximalism to minimalism, they're like, oh, yeah, I only bought one Starbucks drink this week.
Speaker B:Like minimalism.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, most people.
Speaker B:Some people can't even afford Starbucks drinks ever, you know?
Speaker B:So, yeah, buying one, I think they're just glamorizing normal life and calling it minimalist sometimes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I do think there's a lack of respect for everybody that is watching.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you don't know who's watching.
Speaker A:And if they're poor or rich or what their life situation is.
Speaker A:Like, me growing up.
Speaker A:Like, my dad and I slept in a car.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I know what it's like to poop in a five gallon container.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And have to throw it away.
Speaker A:It's minimalistic.
Speaker A:Life is not supposed to be glamorous.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:How do you put it?
Speaker B:Well, if the issue is if you have a choice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, why would you choose to not have your own towel?
Speaker B:Like, well, that's, that's what I mean.
Speaker B:Like, if you have a choice, you need to understand that there's privilege if you have a choice to live that way versus most of the people who are like, I have to live this way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm trying to get out of it.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:I mean, both of them are so tone deaf on the far extreme.
Speaker B:And also, who.
Speaker B:When you're living that minimalist lifestyle, like when Jesus says, like, leave all of your things and follow me.
Speaker B:He's not, that's not the point of what he's saying.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:He's saying, any worldly possessions that hold you back, leave them so that you can follow me.
Speaker B:It's like, what are you idolizing at the end of the day?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They still, all the disciples still had their homes and their families and they returned to them and stuff like.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:You know, except for.
Speaker A:Don't be a martyr for nothing.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Because all those things, you end up leaving here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:100.
Speaker B:So I have now that we kind of talked about the extremes.
Speaker B:I have some questions for you.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:I am neither.
Speaker A:I just want God.
Speaker A:I am very grateful for everything that we have.
Speaker B:Those aren't the questions.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:So I wanted to ask you why.
Speaker B:I think we kind of already went over this.
Speaker B:But why do you think specifically online people are drawn to extremes?
Speaker A:Because extremes attract an audience and an audience is what gets you paid.
Speaker B:No, not.
Speaker B:Why does the person videotape themselves doing extremes?
Speaker B:Why does an audience member knowing that it's not good for you to consume that mentally.
Speaker B:Why are people drawn to watching these extreme videos?
Speaker A:I would say it has a lot to do with their own convictions and their own heart posture and the desire to want more or to.
Speaker A:Or to see just entertainment.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Well, one watching it is kind of like.
Speaker B:And then people can judge, you know, or write comments.
Speaker B:It's kind of like a space to be able to be like me.
Speaker A:It's like those people who record themselves feeding the poor, giving them money.
Speaker A:Or you have people that go do a kind act.
Speaker A:But they're recording it and I'm like.
Speaker B:Recording themselves on mission.
Speaker A:So this is actually pre rehearsed and yeah, like okay, come on.
Speaker A:Like be a little real at least.
Speaker B:Yeah, well that's the thing.
Speaker B:Do you.
Speaker B:Why do you have to post it?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If it's for the Lord, why do you have to post online?
Speaker A:So it's never actually for the Lord when they post it online.
Speaker B:Yeah, well unless you like have a foundation and this is what you do.
Speaker A:But yeah, unless you're promoting a foundation or your church and you're just showing what they're doing.
Speaker A:Exactly like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But the like they are not asking for money through that.
Speaker A:They're not asking for likes or comments and stuff like.
Speaker A:And follow.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I will give one person this if thousand people follow me here.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So then here's my next question.
Speaker B:So can consumption like general consumption of objects, material, whether it's a holistic thing or non holistic, do you think it can ever truly reach a neutral for people or do are someone.
Speaker B:Is someone always kind of going more towards the maximalist side or more towards the minimalist side?
Speaker A:I think you could be a drunkard in many things than just alcohol.
Speaker A:And in that same sense, max.
Speaker A:The max side.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:If you were to look at that from a heart posture and a sinful act, it would be.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Gluttony.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think so in that sense, like huh.
Speaker A:When I think about it, just think about that scarcity mindset during over co.
Speaker A:Covid.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And everybody bought all the toilet paper up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All the people who needed toilet paper do not get toilet paper.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker B:I was begging some people for toilet paper.
Speaker A:And in that same sense because of all these people over consuming, they're able to increase the price now it's more expensive, more tariffs, more need.
Speaker A:Now we're polluting the earth more.
Speaker A:If you're worried about pollution.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We need transportation for all this stuff.
Speaker A:You are not helping anyone, not yourself.
Speaker A:Because now you have to throw it away.
Speaker A:And you're paying for that trash can every week to be filled up.
Speaker A:You pay for it, you pay the taxes for it, you pay for the bill for the truck to come pick it up and then you have to pay for it with your life.
Speaker A:Because now all that stuff is in your landfill and affecting your life.
Speaker B:Not toilet paper per se, but yeah.
Speaker A:Well no toilet paper also not all toilet paper is biodegradable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But makeup, clothing, India, like you look at India, they have so much plastic you look at China, they have so much material like clothing and fabrics.
Speaker B:Same thing with the African east coast.
Speaker B:There are a ton of plastics in the ocean.
Speaker B:Well, there are a ton of landfalls of even just clothes, like over clothed consumption from like H and m.
Speaker B:Forever.
Speaker B:Well, Forever 21's not a thing anymore.
Speaker B:But those again, it's fast fashion, fast purchases.
Speaker A:They build that supply, then they try to meet that demand and then when that supply is not met, they have to throw it all away.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And it's not necessarily thrown away, it doesn't just evaporate.
Speaker B:So again, to ask the question, do you think consumption can ever be neutral?
Speaker A:No, no, I don't think it can.
Speaker A:I think consumption, consumption should be out of necessity and not out of desire or want.
Speaker B:So here's the thing, like the people that you know that have a fancy car, that they don't drive to church and stuff, if that's not a necessity, if that's more of a maximalism, is it still okay if someone can afford it?
Speaker B:In my opinion, answering that, I think it is, it can be.
Speaker B:If you have the finances to splurge a little bit and you want to have fun with your family, God blesses that, that's okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think Dave Ramsey says it really well where he's like, if you're not, start, like if you're not, if you're being wise with your finances and you're at the point where you can have fun with it, have fun.
Speaker B:Just make sure you're still doing basics right, that are supporting you and your family long term.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day you can sometimes have some more maximalistic purchase and more of a minimalistic mindset of the things that you actually need versus what you want.
Speaker B:And checking your heart with those things is okay.
Speaker B:I, I think personally, I don't know if you agree.
Speaker A:I do agree.
Speaker A:I think it's just hard because there is social media and that's that I think that's what I'm speaking towards is a social media when it comes to a personal effect and it's just like, you know, it's okay to be a collector.
Speaker A:You know, like if you need to buy a collector item and you want that and you've been tithing you, you're doing everything correct and you know you're not.
Speaker A:This is not going to take from your responsibility from the Lord and everything else in your life.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker B:Which I think kind of hurting anybody.
Speaker B:It kind of leads into some verses that I have here, like first Timothy 6:6, 8.
Speaker B:It says, but godliness with contentment is great gain, for we brought nothing into this world and we can take nothing out of it.
Speaker B:But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.
Speaker B:So understanding that there are basics to survive and live is great.
Speaker B:But also being in pure survival mode all the time is not necessarily a joyful.
Speaker B:I mean, not joyful.
Speaker A:A happy state to be in could be necessary, though.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Sometimes it is necessary.
Speaker A:Lord works a lot in our lives.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's when we learn.
Speaker B:But here's the thing I also have been praying personally for, because I feel like you and I, you know, like, not growing up in Christian households, often you and I have had to be drug through the gutter and to understand and be like, whoa, here's the perspective.
Speaker B:Here's how I submit to the Lord.
Speaker B:And I want to be in a season or more of a sanctification in my life where I don't have to have a gnarly extreme to learn a lesson.
Speaker A:Yeah, you want to be in the season of thriving versus needing.
Speaker B:Well, no, I mean, it's not even just thriving.
Speaker B:I just want to be more consistent in my walk with Christ where I don't have to hit a low low in order to learn something.
Speaker B:And that's something that I've been praying for over our family.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For you and I and in our home.
Speaker B:Even for Penelope.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That she has the wisdom to be able to submit to the Lord and not have to go through a gnarly trial just to hear him.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker B:And I think that's what a lot of people are groomed in Christianity to feel like.
Speaker B:They have to.
Speaker B:Like you have.
Speaker B:You've been through this trial.
Speaker B:It's time to learn.
Speaker B:Like you also.
Speaker B:You can learn before the trial.
Speaker B:You can heed God's word before that.
Speaker B:So that's what I've been praying for for us personally, whether it be with finances, with work, with health, the things that we've been, you know, like, hurting in the most.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And that's just like a personal regard.
Speaker B:But it's something that I've realized that man.
Speaker B:Yeah, we can pray for that type of wisdom and just practical application of knowledge.
Speaker B:And how do we get there?
Speaker B: which also brings me to Luke: Speaker B:It says, Watch out, be on your guard against all kinds of greed.
Speaker B:Life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.
Speaker B:So again, like, I'm not worried if all of our possessions get taken away.
Speaker B:That's not what sustains me in life.
Speaker B:Christ does.
Speaker B:Even you or Penelope God forbid, if anything were to happen to either of you, like, they're your life, your lives are his.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So if I really am sticking to that mindset of, like, all of this is his, our money's his, life is his, I.
Speaker B:I can't have any worries or strife in my heart.
Speaker A:Easier said than done, huh?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Of course I don't want him to take you away.
Speaker B:That's not even a.
Speaker B:But the thing is, like, we.
Speaker B:That's what we had to go through with our miscarriages, Right?
Speaker A:I was thinking that exact same thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So at.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, it's.
Speaker B:And that's the thing.
Speaker B:I see a lot of women, also Christian women, covet their miscarriages.
Speaker B:And the children that are thriving with the Lord right now, like, they're in a better place than we are.
Speaker B:How could I.
Speaker B:How selfish of me to be like, lord, bring them back.
Speaker B:Take them away from you.
Speaker B:That's crazy.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I think at the end of the day, of course, what we're talking about, everything is a heart posture issue.
Speaker B:But what we don't realize, like, even bringing in to holistic stuff, I have a lot of friends who will come and see my apothecary cabinet or our herbs and supplements and things like that and just be like, oh, I wish I could have something like this.
Speaker B:Like, how do you get there?
Speaker B:I just need to buy X, Y and Z.
Speaker B:No, you don't.
Speaker B:Herbalism, even learning about herbs and plants, it takes time, and you have to spend time with them individually.
Speaker B:My entire apothecary started with one herb, and it was blue vervain.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:In my herbalism course, it was the first herb.
Speaker B:I'd never heard of it, and I didn't want to start with, like, something basic that I used every day.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I'm going to try it.
Speaker B:And for one month, I wrote out how I felt with it, how it affected me, and before even looking into it, I just wanted to see how I could use it and what made me feel good and not feel good.
Speaker B:And then I compared it to the actual plant facts, and it was so cool to see how spot on it was.
Speaker B:And now I know that plant forwards and backwards and every single way of using it, whether it's a tea tincture, a hydrosol oil, I know how it's going to affect me in my body.
Speaker B:I've become a master of that herb for me in my life.
Speaker B:But that took a month of commitment, right?
Speaker B:And every single herb that we have in our apothecary has been built slowly off of that.
Speaker B:I mean, I didn't go that in depth with everything, but it's been slowly building off of that.
Speaker B:So I have years of knowledge with these plants and also slowly and wisely purchasing those things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's the same thing with like if someone has a book collection or just things that you.
Speaker B:Your goals like you want and sound amazing.
Speaker B:What are you doing to get there slowly over time?
Speaker B:And are you doing it biblically with wisdom?
Speaker B:Are you going into debt buying these things where you shouldn't?
Speaker B:You know, so I don't know.
Speaker B:That's just.
Speaker A:What's your other question?
Speaker B:I had another one, but I felt like we kind of discussed it already.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:For where your treasure is, is where your heart will be also.
Speaker B:And then Hebrews 3 or 13 5, keep your lives free from the Lord of money and to be content with what you have.
Speaker B:Because God has said, never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.
Speaker B:There are other really great ones too, but I just feel like this kind of sums up everything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That we've spoken about.
Speaker B:But yeah, I hope that this.
Speaker B:I know it's not really something that probably a lot of our listeners actually genuinely struggle with.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're listening to this podcast, I feel like you tend to probably be more.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker B:A little bit more minimalist.
Speaker A:They probably don't even know what you're talking about because they don't follow this stuff.
Speaker A:I know your feed is poisoned by all of the social media stuff me.
Speaker B:Trying to follow healthcare trends.
Speaker B:But I mean they should be.
Speaker B:You guys should be aware of what is thrown in your kids faces and then your kids friends, you know, things that kids talk about.
Speaker B:But also too.
Speaker B:I mean it is a good heart posture check and it's good to check in with like okay, maybe I don't worry about, you know, buying Gucci or 700 hauls or whatever.
Speaker B:And I don't worry about sharing the same toilet paper roll, you know, reusing toilet paper with my husband, which is a thing.
Speaker B:I'm not extreme on either side.
Speaker B:But also what other things I have been coveting lately and in whole, whether it's a healthy body, wanting a child.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I'm just trying to think of things that I've struggled with.
Speaker B:Wanting a bigger home, wanting to own a home, wanting.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, wanting to be able to go to.
Speaker B:On Vacations with you.
Speaker B:Our honeymoon's the only vacation we've ever really gone on.
Speaker B:Like, just the two of us.
Speaker B:Let me think.
Speaker B:Wanting to be able to save every dog that I see in shelters.
Speaker B:You know, wanting.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Like, that constant wanting of not.
Speaker B:Instead of just taking a step back and being like, this is everything I ever asked for.
Speaker B:The city that we live in, which I'm not going to mention on the podcast.
Speaker B:I have wanted to live here my whole life.
Speaker B:God gave us this as our first home.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:I've wanted to be married my whole life with an amazing husband, which I have.
Speaker B:I've wanted to have children, whether it was adopting or having kids.
Speaker B:And now we're.
Speaker B:We have a beautiful, healthy baby on the way.
Speaker B:Like, we have two dogs, my favorite dogs that I've always wanted.
Speaker B:Border Collie and Australian Shepherd.
Speaker B:It's a mix of both.
Speaker B:Everything I've literally ever wanted in life, I have.
Speaker B:I have my own business.
Speaker B:I have podcast.
Speaker B:How on earth can I be sad or covet, like, want more, but yet again, in my heart, I can still list off a million things that I still want more of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I want my closest friends to be closer.
Speaker B:Living close to us.
Speaker B:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Like, I can go on and on and on.
Speaker A:It's hard, especially when we have a different perspective and where we live because we.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We are accommodated by our surroundings.
Speaker A:Where other people are not.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where they have to accommodate that.
Speaker A:They have to forcibly do something to be accommodated.
Speaker A:Whether it is gardening, whether it is going and foraging or hunting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or we don't have to do those.
Speaker B:We don't have to do anything, but we're choosing to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's the thing with sustainability.
Speaker B:We do have to do some of those things to sustain financially where we live.
Speaker B:But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:We have the time to do that versus the finances.
Speaker B:A lot of people around here have the finances to take away more time and effort so that they can be more laissez faire with their day.
Speaker B:But then the question is, what are they doing with that time?
Speaker B:So at the end of the day, I just want people who are listening to be able to check in and ask one first in your prayer, if you can.
Speaker B:Today pray, just thankfulness for all the things that God has given you, even if it is today, the fact that you're just alive in your breathing, just.
Speaker B:That is a gift.
Speaker B:That is a gift from the Lord.
Speaker B:And Katie's book Unparalyzed really does hit home on that over and over and over again.
Speaker B:And I got to share my story on her blog about what I learned through our four miscarriages, which has been a huge blessing.
Speaker B:So if you guys missed that on social media, you can go see under my podcast and go like under my stories.
Speaker B:Click podcast and go read that if you'd like.
Speaker B:A lot of people commented on how they cried really hard reading that, which was not the goal.
Speaker B:But I'm really glad that it pulled some heartstrings cuz I cried yeah during that whole season and God taught me and you a lot.
Speaker B:Um, so even if today you just have thankfulness to be alive, that is enough to praise the Lord for.
Speaker B:And I'm I can promise you, most of the people who can hear this have a lot more to praise the Lord for than that.
Speaker B:So start off with thankfulness and then just thank him.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, just endless thanks.
Speaker B:That's all I can think of.
Speaker B:And then, yeah, repent.
Speaker B:I feel like for anything that you really are coveting, it's time to repent from that and then end in thankfulness again.
Speaker B:May it be a thankfulness sandwich and just praise him.
Speaker B:Don't ask for anything for once in your prayers and I think that may be good for us tonight to focus on too.
Speaker A:Yeah, we can definitely do that.
Speaker A:Another good thing that I've been told recently is to list out those fears or things that you're coveting and so start a journal.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's always a benefit and then you actually go see that change.
Speaker B:Thank you love.
Speaker B:Well, I hope this episode was casting seeds for everyone and if anyone felt like it was casting pearls, we'd love to hear your opinion.
Speaker B:But thank you for being consistent listeners.
Speaker B:I hope and pray that you are able to listen to the Holistic Mamas podcast that I was featured on this week and I'd love to catch up with you guys on social media, Facebook in any way, shape or form and we can all make fun of the maximalist and minimalist videos together.
Speaker B:On that note, you guys, we love you.
Speaker B:Thank you for listening and as always, keep casting seeds.
Speaker B:We hope you enjoyed learning how to cultivate God's creation from a biblical perspective, holistic health and is to prioritize whole person wellness through Christ like and comment on what topics we're casting seeds or casting pearls.
Speaker A:If you found this information provided useful, subscribe to our podcast.
Speaker A:For future updates.
Speaker A:Leave a review to help us improve and share this episode, we would like to remind you before we leave that perfect health cannot be attained in this world.
Speaker B:Only spiritual salvation through sanctification and repentance, declares God, and turning away from sin will give you a perfect body in the kingdom come.
Speaker B:Nourish yourself in the Word, in prayer, and in biblical fellowship daily.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us today and a special thank you to our listeners for making this podcast possible.
Speaker B:Always praying.
Speaker A:Keep casting seeds.
