Episode 88
Is Christmas Demonic?
The central theme of our discourse today revolves around the origins and meanings associated with traditional Christmas symbols, particularly the Christmas tree, wreaths, and the practice of gift-giving. We seek to elucidate the misconception that these elements possess inherently pagan or demonic roots. Instead, we shall reveal how these practices have evolved from Christian traditions that celebrate the birth of Christ, encapsulating profound theological significance. Historical context plays a crucial role in understanding how these customs transitioned from medieval church celebrations to contemporary practices within Christian households. As we delve into these topics, we aim to equip our listeners with knowledge that fosters an appreciation for the spiritual richness embedded in holiday traditions, thereby enabling them to engage meaningfully with family and friends during the Christmas season.
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes that Christmas traditions, such as trees and gift-giving, have Christian roots and not demonic origins.
- Listeners are encouraged to understand the historical context of Christmas celebrations and their significance in Christianity.
- The hosts discuss how modern interpretations of Christmas symbols can sometimes misrepresent their original meanings.
- The episode highlights the importance of discerning truth in traditions and the value of sharing this knowledge with others.
- The conversation delves into the origins of Christmas trees, tracing them back to medieval Christian symbolism and their representation of everlasting life.
- A critical analysis on whether Christians are obligated to celebrate Christmas, emphasizing that the heart behind the celebration matters most.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Hello, everyone and welcome back to Casting Seeds.
Speaker A:I'm Savannah, your holistic health practitioner and host.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeremiah, your co host.
Speaker A:And you're listening to the only holistic health podcast that uses God's singular truth to give you individualized discernment.
Speaker A:I'm excited for today and this month because it's going to be Christmas themed.
Speaker A:It's Christ mass themed.
Speaker A:We got a few questions.
Speaker A:Sorry, my face was itchy.
Speaker A:We got a few questions about Christmas and trees and wreaths and gift giving and la la la.
Speaker A:A lot of people think that these things are purely demonic.
Speaker A:And since we are a holistic based podcast, even though this isn't necessarily.
Speaker A:I guess, healthc care related.
Speaker B:No, I. I think it is.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker B:Well, we have a lot of friends that actually have allergies when they have their Christmas tree up.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a whole other thing.
Speaker A:I did post about that last year.
Speaker B:Yeah, like you have to add water to that and stuff.
Speaker B:So you're building humidity, mildew.
Speaker A:Well, that's not what we want to talk about.
Speaker A:That's not what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker A:I mean, but we, we can talk about that in the next episode.
Speaker B:Sounds demonic.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Jeremiah mold's not good for us.
Speaker B:Jeremiah's jumping penicillin.
Speaker A:Jeremiah's jumping a little bit.
Speaker A:I wanted to talk today about the spiritual aspect of these things because.
Speaker A:I feel like I had a general census of what I thought I knew.
Speaker A:Like, oh, you know, just over time we adapt with these pagan things, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:And honestly, even if Christians did do that, like if we just kind of took things in and made it not demonic anymore, I don't see how that would be a bad thing, to be honest.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a hard issue at the end of the day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to me, that's like not a huge issue.
Speaker A:But I could see how some people don't like things with truly demonic roots.
Speaker A:And I get that presentation.
Speaker A:But here's the surprise, you guys.
Speaker A:They don't have demonic roots.
Speaker A:Wreaths, trees, and gift giving.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:There was a point in time where demonic, I would say, like, cult, like celebrations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:God's creation is used for demonic stuff.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker A:What I'm saying is at certain time, like they knew that Christians were celebrating at this time.
Speaker A:So it's like they kind of like, no.
Speaker B:Try to re.
Speaker B:Re Appropriate it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like Kwanzaa.
Speaker A:Kwanzaa is a made up holiday to make people feel included that aren't Christians.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker B:Everyone needs a present.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, so anyway, what I'm saying is at the end of the day, when Christians were celebrating Christ's birth, which that's also a part of it, was Jesus really born on December 25th?
Speaker A:We're going to talk about those things today.
Speaker A:So I have some sources and some information and then conspiracy.
Speaker A:It's not conspiracy themed, but it's just, I feel like a good.
Speaker A:And here's the holistic aspect of this.
Speaker A:I feel like this is a good thing for us as Christians to have in our back pocket so that when we're with our non believing family during the holidays, which last year, remember we had a whole episode talking about like how to be able to share the gospel around the holidays without it being stressful.
Speaker B:Still difficult.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Every year, every year it gets easier and harder.
Speaker A:This is just great information for you to be able to love on your family members and gently correct them and course correct in general and be like, hey, actually, you know, your YouTube information is not, is not solid.
Speaker B:Big one.
Speaker A:I'm constantly correcting people who just don't know history at all on Instagram and Facebook and it is exhausting.
Speaker B:So they use chat, GBT and AI.
Speaker A:Yeah, they don't even use YouTube.
Speaker A:I don't even know what they use.
Speaker A:They failed in school.
Speaker A:So I want to first start with Christmas trees.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Jeremiah, I would love for you to share what you think Christmas trees, without looking it up, what you think Christmas trees started as.
Speaker A:Because I feel like you're gonna have the general census of what most people think Christmas trees started as and how they became like Christian.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I mean, I feel like the story, you know, the story clause, that movie that we really like.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's generally pretty close to what I've heard from like Germany and like those northern eastern countries where like they had Christmas tree.
Speaker B:Like they didn't have Christmas trees, but it started with somebody that was giving them a gift and eventually it started happening that they use Christmas lights or candles.
Speaker B:Actually not Christmas lights back then, but they would decorate trees with it and it would bring.
Speaker B:That's like a significant way of telling the person like, please bring a present to me.
Speaker A:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:So like I've heard of that.
Speaker B:And then there's this other side of it where is if you put this tree in your house, it's a form of worship to this different type of entity, whatever they wanted to call it then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it was more of a demonic thing.
Speaker B:I think the reef was more towards.
Speaker A:That was the evil welcoming soul.
Speaker B:And then the Tree was like, more like, I guess, like good luck and stuff like that.
Speaker B:Like, if you were a bad kid, they put coal in your shoe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you were a good kid, then you got a present.
Speaker B:The reef was bring.
Speaker B:So there was Santa Claus and then there's.
Speaker B:Gosh.
Speaker B:What is the other one called?
Speaker A:Yeah, the Bad Santa Claus.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's the Bad Santa Claus, and he comes and takes the child away.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's what I know about Christmas trees.
Speaker A:Well, everything you know is wrong.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, not.
Speaker A:Not 100, but it's, like, kind of convoluted.
Speaker A:A lot of what you said is not correct.
Speaker A:But that's also like, the kind of the rumor mill that's been spread around.
Speaker A:One for pagan rituals today.
Speaker B:When.
Speaker A:I mean today.
Speaker A:I mean, within, like, the past 50 years, they use wreaths on the door as, like, a ritual for people, like, for spirits to cut.
Speaker A:It's kind of like a bullseye.
Speaker A:And they say, like, you come through the bullseye, and then a tree is used as, like, the pillar, you know, like.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah, it.
Speaker A:Is that real?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Do I care?
Speaker A:No, because I don't do that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do I have a wreath on my door right now?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Do I have a Christmas tree in my house?
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:Some of my favorite parts of Christmas.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So what actually started because I wanted to understand where Christmas trees got involved.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Christianity.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Well, even before that.
Speaker A:Before that, Christmas trees in general.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The evergreen tree.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The reason why in Jeremiah 10, people are like, oh, you're not supposed to have a Christmas tree.
Speaker A:Because Jeremiah 10 talks about not, like, decorating trees with gold or.
Speaker A:And carving out idols.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:If you are decorating your trees in gold and silver and worshiping a tree and carving an idol into it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It says.
Speaker A:It says nothing about chopping down a tree, bringing it into your house, and having it look pretty.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's not a demonic thing at all.
Speaker A:So let's talk about what.
Speaker A:Where it actually started.
Speaker A:So in medieval Europe, especially Germany.
Speaker A:Germany has, like, a lot of these origins, actually, which is kind of cool.
Speaker A:The church had, like, they held these mystery plays, so on December 24th, they'd celebrate the feast of Adam and Eve.
Speaker A:So, like, kind of basically like, what happened, like, the fall in the garden.
Speaker A:And one of the most famous props in the feast was called the Paradise Tree.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:So think about the Tree of Life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The Tree of Life, and then the Tree of Good and of Knowledge.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Tree of Good and Evil.
Speaker A:So the evergreen tree would Be decorated with apples.
Speaker A:So that's also, you know, like that symbolism where we see Adam and Eve with an apple.
Speaker A:It'd be decorated with apples to represent the garden of Eden.
Speaker A:And the reason why they picked an evergreen tree was because in the dead of winter, it still was the only tree that was alive.
Speaker A:So it would live when all the other trees died.
Speaker A:So it's like the tree of life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:So evergreen.
Speaker B:Is any Douglas fir?
Speaker B:Any.
Speaker A:Any type of evergreen tree?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Think of a Christmas tree that's an evergreen tree.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Needles, like pine needles on it.
Speaker A:So sometimes they'd also use wafers, like symbolizing the redemption, like, through Christ too.
Speaker A:And they'd have that on the trees.
Speaker A:Kind of weird, but they would have these plays, and it'd be like a mystery play because they wouldn't know how it would be acted out.
Speaker A:But every year they.
Speaker A:It was like a tradition from medieval times.
Speaker A:So the church needed something green in the winter to represent Eden.
Speaker A:So they would use evergreens.
Speaker A:And this was like the earliest true, I guess, ancestor of an actual Christmas tree.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Where you're putting Christ's mass.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And relating it to a type of tree.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So what's the pagan side of it?
Speaker A:The pagan side of it would be.
Speaker A:Sun worship.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:So, like, at that.
Speaker A:Around that time on December 25th in Roman times, the sun God was worshiped on December 25th.
Speaker A:But that also happened.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That was happening, like, before Christ's birth or anything like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And a lot of scholars would say that.
Speaker A:That if Christ was born on December 25, it would make sense to usurp a pagan God and have the true son of God be born on that day.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So because, you know, God is all about symbolism.
Speaker A:So again, it's not 100 confirmed.
Speaker A:And I do.
Speaker A:Which that.
Speaker A:We'll get to that because I'm not done with the evergreen.
Speaker A:But there are a few people who, back in Jesus's time, like, literally a few hundred years after, who were trying to figure out and do the math of when Jesus was born.
Speaker A:And I have that information too.
Speaker A:But anyway, medieval Christians connected evergreen trees with everlasting life because the crease the trees don't die in the winter.
Speaker A:And also hope in darkness and Christ's eternal nature.
Speaker A:So this wasn't a pagan association at all.
Speaker A:It was a Christian interpretation of a natural symbol of God's creation.
Speaker A:So Christians saw this as a visual sermon.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And they used that.
Speaker B:So an analogy.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So, yeah, in medieval or Europe, basically, they had Catholic drunken Pagan adjacent winter festivals.
Speaker A:That's, that's 100.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker A:But at the same time the church wanted to suppress those and replace them with Christian centered celebrations.
Speaker A:So the paradise tree tradition moved from churches into homes because people liked it so much.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:So just like today, right now, during Christmas, a lot of people have pagan, horrible, demonic, evil celebrations where they worship gifts, they worship idols, they worship things.
Speaker A:Anything that's not worshiping Christ is demonic and pagan.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But at the end of the day when people find something beautiful and they see a representation of Christ through his creation and they want that in their home, that's what created that.
Speaker A:And it was more of an upper class thing where it started.
Speaker A:And of course we're upper class.
Speaker A:When people are more rich and fashionable, then the lower classes start to take it on.
Speaker A:And then from there, once pagans started to see that these beau, like all these Christians were having these beautiful parties with beautiful trees and having like, you know, eating apples.
Speaker A:And that's where fruitcakes also came from.
Speaker A:You know, like.
Speaker A:What's that?
Speaker A:Right, A fruitcake, that gross thing during Christmas that people eat?
Speaker B:No idea.
Speaker A:It's like bread with fruit in it.
Speaker A:That's where that came from.
Speaker B:Oh, you're talking about the raisin bread.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's a fruit.
Speaker A:An actual one is like all sorts of fruit in it.
Speaker B:Oh, it's gross.
Speaker A:I've had one once and I'm glad that I tell people I'm sorry, I'm celiac now, I can't.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've only had the Italian and Argentine when they use raisins.
Speaker A:I'm sure that's a lot better.
Speaker A:But anyway, so that's when, that's when it got really popular for Christians.
Speaker A:But then especially pagans after that.
Speaker A:Interesting for this time of year specifically.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker B:It does make sense that demonic purposes want to repurpose what we use to worship and love our God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But the point is we as Christians did it first.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I mean everything that is done is Christ centered and Christ done first.
Speaker A:Yeah, but historically we had it first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there is proof of that.
Speaker A:So evergreens, apples, nuts, even gingerbread and even candles and those things in their homes during Advent and Christmas, like the Advent calendar that we even do at our church with candles.
Speaker A:Those are all representations like the light of God.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So gingerbread even has meaning.
Speaker A:I don't have it here, but I'm sure I could look it up.
Speaker A:But not because of paganism.
Speaker A:It was because of Christian household devotion.
Speaker A:So that's how traditions were beginning to cultivate was during the medieval times, and obviously it spread across Europe and then spread to the Americas when that whole thing happened, you know?
Speaker A:So if you want to talk about, like, nativity scenes and Advent cal calendars and paradise trees, which.
Speaker A:I think it's so cute that a Christmas tree was originally called a paradise tree because it made them think of everlasting life, like being in paradise with Christ.
Speaker A:And I almost want to change it.
Speaker A:I almost want to say, like, this is my paradise tree, you know, especially because ours is epically going to last forever, because it's a fake tree.
Speaker B:Funny.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I think that that's really sweet and, I don't know, kind.
Speaker A:So, yeah, just to kind of give, like, a general history.
Speaker A: In the: Speaker A: tholics, the lutherans in the: Speaker A:And then it became like a huge boom.
Speaker A:Like, everybody wanted them.
Speaker A:Like, oh, the royals have it in their home.
Speaker A:So that's when it became kind of really widespread and global for all of Christians, whether you're a Catholic or not.
Speaker A:And then even non Christians were like, oh, I'm gonna take this over.
Speaker A:So that was when, like, the biggest thing happened.
Speaker B:I remember growing up here in America, we had Christmas lights.
Speaker B:And when I would visit Hungary when I was younger, they didn't know what Christmas lights were.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B: Gosh,: Speaker B:The first.
Speaker B:97.
Speaker B:The first time I went to Hungary, no one had Christmas lights.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, I mean, think about it.
Speaker A:They were in bread lines only like, ten years before that.
Speaker A:And still, I think they were selling lines for certain things even when you were a kid, right?
Speaker A:What, like lines for food?
Speaker A:Bread lines?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, I would have to run down there and get in line for food, show my ticket and the.
Speaker B:Fill up my bucket, and I take it home.
Speaker A:Jeremiah is not Hungarian, by the way, but he was raised in a Hungarian.
Speaker A:A partially Hungarian household and family.
Speaker A:So they'd go visit.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, people just don't know what they don't know, you know?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So that's kind of like, oh, same thing with wreaths, all of that.
Speaker A:It all had representation for Christ.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just.
Speaker A:I wanted crumpus.
Speaker B:That's the evil one.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah, we don't give two hoots about krumpus.
Speaker A:That was probably part of the Pagan hall or Santa.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or even Santa, which.
Speaker A:That's also a conversation I feel like I would love to hear from listeners because Jeremiah and I have Penelope now we've.
Speaker A:This is kind of off topic, but we've decided to not celebrate Santa in the way where we would, like, want her to believe in Santa.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We won't write Santa on any of the presents or anything like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, he's not some mom and dad gives presence.
Speaker A:Well, he's not a mythical creature that actually comes down and is real in that way.
Speaker A:But I would love.
Speaker A:We would love to tell her the story of St Nicholas and how he became, you know, what he became today.
Speaker A:And it will be fun to, like, pretend, I think.
Speaker A:But I don't know.
Speaker A:I would love to hear how other people have done that because I was duped for until I was like 13.
Speaker A:And when I found out that Santa.
Speaker B:Scalable a little bit something sometimes.
Speaker A:Dude, I wanted to believe.
Speaker A:You could tell I wanted to be a Christian from when I was a kid.
Speaker A:I was devastated.
Speaker A:But my parents, like, they put footprints on, like, the floor they had chewed up like deer poop.
Speaker A:Like, they.
Speaker A:I don't know, they really went all out every year to trick us and that's what it was.
Speaker B:Well, they're having fun being parents.
Speaker A:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker A:Are we missing out on the fun?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm not gonna do that.
Speaker B:Elf on the Shelf.
Speaker B:You've seen the stuff they post about Elf on the Shelf.
Speaker A:No, I wouldn't.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:That thing creeps me out so much.
Speaker B:I don't like puppets and I don't really like the stuffed animal toys.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, with that being said, I also want to get into the theological interpretive debate on, like, whether or not Christmas should be.
Speaker B:I didn't study for this celebration.
Speaker A:Well, listen, okay.
Speaker A:The really strict biblical doctrinal view, right, People argue that scripture is, like, very clearly condemns the decoration of trees.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:It's like the decoration of them because it associates them with pagan idolatry and therefore Christians should avoid such practices.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Many, many of them see, like Christmas trees and wreaths as equally dangerous and demonic because of that.
Speaker A:But again, we went over the historical context and the adaptation of where it actually started from were truly Christian roots.
Speaker A:So that's the main thing that I like, want to get into people's hearts for this podcast, is to understand that it's actually genuinely Christian roots for the trees and the wreaths.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, would just think about it, like, if you took that same context and you put it towards everything that is being used demonically.
Speaker B:Rainbows.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:That's like the first one my mind goes to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So like a Christian can never wear anything rainbow ever again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:My daughter can't wear rainbows because society's turned it into gays.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, absolutely not.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the thing too.
Speaker A:I also want to talk about.
Speaker A:We talked about earlier Jesus's birthday and Christians like how they all are like.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, you know, it's not actually on December 25th.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:That's kind of.
Speaker A:So one influential, like really early Christian think thinker.
Speaker A:His name's Sextus Julius Africanus.
Speaker A:He is the one who calculated and the one who brought up December 25th being Jesus's birth for.
Speaker A:And by going back to the conception date of March 25th.
Speaker A:Okay, random.
Speaker A:That he did that.
Speaker A:So he.
Speaker A:And then also a friend of his later in life, Hippolytus of Rome.
Speaker A:So he's later.
Speaker A:He also is another Christian writer who fully supported it being on December 25 as the birth date in his commentary.
Speaker A:But here's where the debate happens.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:This was December 25th.
Speaker A:Not in the Judeo Christian calendar.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This was December 25th when we used to have a 13 month calendar.
Speaker A:So that's where a lot of the muddiness and confusion comes in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because we have pagan rituals, a lot of them in December.
Speaker A:So December 17th to the 23rd was like a Roman festival called Saturlina, like Saturn and it was like all about gift give.
Speaker A:Well, I can't talk today.
Speaker A:Gift giving.
Speaker A:Yeah, so there was that.
Speaker A:And that was in their 13th month.
Speaker A:And then also the introduction of soul, which was celebrated on December 25.
Speaker A:So the Sun God.
Speaker A:And then on top of that we have people saying that Christians just picked December 25th to overrun the sun God thing and the gift giving thing.
Speaker A:And that's why we took in the gift giving.
Speaker A:We took in the Christmas tree.
Speaker A:And none of that is necessarily true because with gift giving.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It actually says that when gift giving occurred, a lot of people represented gift giving for when Jesus was gifted all of the oils and the gold from the three wise men.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's something that Christians were doing in that same time period that we were talking about earlier in the.
Speaker A:Why can I think today.
Speaker A:The medieval times, when they started doing it in the medieval times, like bringing in Christmas trees, they were doing the gift giving then as well.
Speaker A:So it wasn't like them copying the Roman pagan because the Roman Rome already had fallen at that time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Rome fell.
Speaker A:They weren't taking it from that.
Speaker A: il much later, until like the: Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's why a lot of this is just very like the convolutedness is, comes from people not understanding that things were in separate time periods.
Speaker A:There's the Roman Empire and what they did and represented.
Speaker A:Christians weren't celebrating Christ's birth then that's, that wasn't happening.
Speaker A: il the, at earliest, the late: Speaker A:So that's kind of how that all happened.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:They celebrated Easter at that time.
Speaker A:They celebrated Christ's resurrection.
Speaker A:But until then, Christ's birth wasn't really fully celebrated.
Speaker A:People were trying to figure it out for a long time, but they.
Speaker A:They said that they could figure out.
Speaker A:They figured out the immaculate conception was March 15th or 25th.
Speaker A:What was, was in March, March 25th, which made them think that's why he was born in December 25th.
Speaker A:So and because these people were from like the 4th century, that's why they gave credit and validity to them because they were so close to when Christ was actually alive for historians.
Speaker A:So that's why they adopted the date and kept the date.
Speaker A:But then.
Speaker A:So like December 25th with the 13 month calendar is a different day than December 25th in the 12 month calendar.
Speaker A:So we kept the day and name December 25th.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But then it changed to the Judeo Christian calendar, which technically December 25th is a different day, like an actual day of the year.
Speaker A:So does it at the end of this, does it actually matter if we have the exact day now?
Speaker A:Does it?
Speaker B:Trying to track and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like it doesn't actually matter.
Speaker A:Yeah, I, I know.
Speaker A:Is this confusing?
Speaker A:Am I saying.
Speaker B:I guess just because I haven't really dug, dug into it.
Speaker B:Like I'm trying to follow like I know Roman when.
Speaker B:Roman times when that ended medieval, like that next year.
Speaker B:Medieval times is like right there.
Speaker A:No, not necessarily.
Speaker A:There's a gap.
Speaker B:Just a little one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I like a couple hundred years.
Speaker A:But there's a gap.
Speaker B:Well, no.
Speaker B:So was that 100 years actually a couple hundred years actually there when that calendar was switched, there's years that went missing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:100.
Speaker A:There's like 300 years.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That just vanished.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:After the Roman Empire.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's what I'm saying at the End of the day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Does it really, truly matter?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And even heart posture towards it.
Speaker A:And also at the end of the day, who you're doing this for, as Christians, do we.
Speaker A:Do we even have to celebrate Chris.
Speaker A:Christ's birth?
Speaker A:Like, do we have to celebrate his resurrection?
Speaker B:I think that's something to celebrate his birth.
Speaker B:I mean, we celebrate individual people's birth.
Speaker B:And I think it's just a great reminder and a great opportunity to do outreach to people to bring Jesus into their lives, speak the gospel.
Speaker A:But what I'm saying is, as Christians are re.
Speaker A:Required to celebrate his birth.
Speaker B:Not in the Bible.
Speaker A:Are we requi.
Speaker A:Required to even celebrate his death.
Speaker A:It's not in the resurrection.
Speaker B:Are we required to have a cross in a church?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:So that's the point I'm trying to make.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:As Christians, the only thing we are, or I should say, things that we are required to do is to love God with all your heart, mind, soul.
Speaker B:And strength, and love neighbor.
Speaker A:Love your neighbor as you would yourself.
Speaker A:And by doing that, that's sharing the gospel.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Take on disciples and be disciples.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And none of that.
Speaker A:Does it say and celebrate.
Speaker A:Do.
Speaker A:Should we worship him?
Speaker A:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:These are.
Speaker B:That's every day, not a special day.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And these are beautiful things that we're doing.
Speaker A:And it's wonderful to have, like, a reason for the season reminder.
Speaker A:But our season, this season.
Speaker A:And reason is every day for us.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I do feel like in America specifically, we need these holidays to remind us apparently, that these horrific acts have happened in our past, and then also these wonderful acts have happened in our past.
Speaker B:It's kind of sad.
Speaker A:Acts.
Speaker A:What acts?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The act of Mary giving birth to a child.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:And that being Jesus.
Speaker B:And then the act of killing Jesus.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker A:I mean, yes, it's.
Speaker A:Then those people are called creasters.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:I don't know that.
Speaker B:What's a creaser?
Speaker A:A creaser is a greaser.
Speaker B:No, it's a Christian.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:A creaser is a Christmas.
Speaker A:Christmas Easter only person.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Someone who only.
Speaker A:And honestly, a lot of Christians and a lot of Catholics, like, a lot of them are creasers.
Speaker A:They only go to church.
Speaker A:And if that.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh, he's awake.
Speaker B:Dude, these night vision cameras are freaky.
Speaker A:Her eyes look scary.
Speaker A:So I know this is a short and sweet episode, and now knowing that I need to go to my daughter right now, it will probably end.
Speaker A:But I just wanted this episode to be encouraging to you guys to Understand that one.
Speaker A:We actually were the ones who brought Christmas and the representation of trees and wreaths and Christ's birthday.
Speaker A:As Christians, we are the ones who documented it and did these things and started these traditions wholeheartedly around this season with gift giving.
Speaker A:Also, if when people try to bring these things back to a demonic aspect, they are mixing up different historic time periods and not understanding that they are inaccurate with history.
Speaker A:So just to sum it up, to make it easy for you guys, the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The roots of like the Roman paganism that has nothing to do.
Speaker A:Those celebrations were completely, completely separate to then pick up like hundreds of years later where in the medieval times, Christians were trying to find representation in the church of God's beauty and everlasting life and used trees that they brought inside to represent for plays.
Speaker A:They used wreaths also.
Speaker A:And then they also exchanged gifts of food, like being like mostly apples and things that were represented of living during winter time when everything should be dead, things are alive.
Speaker A:So they used a lot of citrus and then apples.
Speaker A:I'm trying to think nuts and that type of stuff.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then bread, obviously, too.
Speaker A:So that's where the fruitcakes came from with all that.
Speaker A:Obviously, over time, things changed and us as humans evolved, you know, in the.
Speaker A:Not evolved as in.
Speaker A:My gosh, Jeremiah is so bad.
Speaker A:We evolve.
Speaker A:Our culture and culture evolved to doing different types of gifts and individual gifts and more of things and stuff.
Speaker A:Not just like a feast or food that you would celebrate with people.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I agree with Jeremiah and the representation of like the gay flag being a pride flag, right.
Speaker A:Of a rainbow.
Speaker A:Just because people were trying to take that and turn it into something else doesn't mean that the origin was not biblical and Christian.
Speaker A:The origin of the rainbow is Christian.
Speaker A:The origin of evergreen trees being paradise trees, not Christmas trees.
Speaker A:All of these things, even Christ's birthday had nothing to do with anything pagan ever.
Speaker A:And people try to flip it the same way that actually the saying that blood is thicker than water.
Speaker A:Water, people try to make that not biblical, but the whole quote is actually the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of birth.
Speaker A:So the meaning is the exact opposite.
Speaker A:So that's the one thing I want you guys to be aware of and that I do think makes us a holistic episode.
Speaker A:That culture tries to change what is biblical and we are anticultural.
Speaker A:We are pro Christ and anticultural and everything that we do as Christians.
Speaker A:So with that being said, I know this was kind of like a messy, convoluted episode because Jeremiah and I were going back and forth so much.
Speaker A:But if you could take one thing from this, I want you to understand that the reason of the season is all year long Christ is celebrated all year long in your life.
Speaker A:So you don't need a Christmas tree to celebrate them.
Speaker A:You, you can do whatever you want.
Speaker A:If you feel uncomfortable with those things and you do want to worship them in any way, shape or form, of course don't have them in your home, then that is demonic.
Speaker A:But most of you probably don't feel that way and most of you probably don't carve idols into your trees or do weird things.
Speaker A:So with that, I hope that this is a positive and delight delightful thing for you to use for those annoying people in your life who just want to throw oh, you have a Christmas tree and you're a Christian.
Speaker A:Obviously I have to deal with that.
Speaker A:So that's why I did this episode.
Speaker A:And with that, I hope you guys have an amazing Christmas and a happy New Year.
Speaker A:And I can't wait to do another episode that's Christmas themed.
Speaker A:And if you guys have any record or questions and suggestions of what you want it to be, because I already have an idea, maybe I can throw in a little extra episode this month.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:I love you guys and Merry Christmas.
Speaker A:I feel like I get to say that at the end of every episode now.
Speaker A:Merry Christmas.
Speaker A:We hope you enjoyed learning how to cultivate God's creation from a Biblical perspective.
Speaker A:Holistic health is to prioritize whole person wellness through Christ like and comment on what topics we're casting seeds or casting pearls.
Speaker B:If you found this information provided useful, subscribe to our Podcast Refute future Updates Leave a review to help us improve and share this episode.
Speaker B:We would like to remind you before we leave that perfect health cannot be attained in this world.
Speaker A:Only spiritual salvation through sanctification and repentance to God and turning away from sin will give you a perfect body in the kingdom come.
Speaker A:Nourish yourself in the Word, in prayer, and in biblical fellowship daily.
Speaker B:Thank you for joining us today and a special thank you to our listeners for making this podcast possible.
Speaker A:Always praying.
Speaker B:Keep casting seeds.
